EPL 2023/2024

[Hu War Yu]

Palace has been great recently, but the vultures are already circling over that squad. Entertaining team to watch.

Coaching change seems to have revitalized things. We'll have to see what he can do with a full season and probably less talent. Nice that they stayed up for next season, at least. A couple of weeks back I thought for sure they were goners.

 

[rsw626]

Coaching change seems to have revitalized things. We'll have to see what he can do with a full season and probably less talent. Nice that they stayed up for next season, at least. A couple of weeks back I thought for sure they were goners.

Not just coaching, the ownership too. John Textor (American) owns them, he also owns Botafogo in Brazil and they have really turned it around the last couple of years. They were running away with the Brazilian Serie A League last season until injuries, and their coached got poached 3/4 the way through the season by the Saudi League.

I hope Palace does well, always liked them, their fans are great, and Selhurst Park is one of the best atmosphere's in England.

 

[Tharvot]

Coaching change seems to have revitalized things. We'll have to see what he can do with a full season and probably less talent. Nice that they stayed up for next season, at least. A couple of weeks back I thought for sure they were goners.

I guess i had just always assumed Palace were somewhere mid table or just below that mark all season. They definitely had a bad stretch right before their current run of form, but the clubs below them were just as bad.

I wonder how good they can be w/o Olise and Eze. Surely some big clubs will come in with a lot of money for one of or both of those players this summer.

 

[Tharvot]

Didn't hand the league to Arsenal

 

[MrFlyingV]

Didn't hand the league to Arsenal

That is a Catch-22. Didn't hand it to Arsenal but Man City going to win it...like next year also and year after...until the EPL seriously hits them with Financial Fair play. Then Pep leaves back to Bayern Munich.

 

[Tharvot]

That is a Catch-22. Didn't hand it to Arsenal but Man City going to win it...like next year also and year after...until the EPL seriously hits them with Financial Fair play. Then Pep leaves back to Bayern Munich.

The only upside for Spurs if they won was it kept champions league hopes alive. But even then, they needed Villa to lose their final game.

The thought of Arsenal winning the title was too much for the fans to take. Judging by his post game interviews, Ange definitely was not on the same side as the fans. He wants to win every game and was furious with the whole situation.

 

[rsw626]

The only upside for Spurs if they won was it kept champions league hopes alive. But even then, they needed Villa to lose their final game.

The thought of Arsenal winning the title was too much for the fans to take. Judging by his post game interviews, Ange definitely was not on the same side as the fans. He wants to win every game and was furious with the whole situation.

And this is why Spurs will never win anything more concerned about other teams than themselves. Every recent manager has said the same. Big Ange will be gone, you can tell he was dumbfounded and disgusted by that attitude both in and outside the club.

 

[Tharvot]

And this is why Spurs will never win anything more concerned about other teams than themselves. Every recent manager has said the same. Big Ange will be gone, you can tell he was dumbfounded and disgusted by that attitude both in and outside the club.

He definitely didn't realize the fans' mindset heading in. But that's just the way it is and I don't think you can change peoples' minds overnight.

If he whips spurs into shape and they're competing for the title every year along with a few cups here and there, the mindset will eventually change. But the fact is, Spurs are competing for 3-4th place most of the time. Outside of 2 years under Poch, they've not competed for the league title in decades.

 

[rsw626]

He definitely didn't realize the fans' mindset heading in. But that's just the way it is and I don't think you can change peoples' minds overnight.

If he whips spurs into shape and they're competing for the title every year along with a few cups here and there, the mindset will eventually change. But the fact is, Spurs are competing for 3-4th place most of the time. Outside of 2 years under Poch, they've not competed for the league title in decades.

It's going to be harder for them for a while. They will go through the same issue Arsenal did after their new stadium, a low spending budget until the stadium is paid off. Arsenal moved into The Emirates in 06 (maybe 05), and were on a shoestring budget until around 15-16 or so, so look for that to happen with Spurs too. And let's be honest, Levy wasn't a big spender by any stretch even before the stadium, so I think they are going to have to reply on their academy, or finding "hidden jewels" around the UK and Europe.

I like Ange, and i think he can do a great job if A) he's given time, and B) decides to stay.

 

[Tharvot]

It's going to be harder for them for a while. They will go through the same issue Arsenal did after their new stadium, a low spending budget until the stadium is paid off. Arsenal moved into The Emirates in 06 (maybe 05), and were on a shoestring budget until around 15-16 or so, so look for that to happen with Spurs too. And let's be honest, Levy wasn't a big spender by any stretch even before the stadium, so I think they are going to have to reply on their academy, or finding "hidden jewels" around the UK and Europe.

I like Ange, and i think he can do a great job if A) he's given time, and B) decides to stay.

Long post incoming haha:

To get a good picture of Spurs' current transfer strategy, you have to go back all the way to Poch's last year. If you recall, Spurs went the full year of 2018 without purchasing any players. They were in the process of building the new stadium and were cash strapped. The amateur estimate of how much they had available to spend was maybe 40-50m total. They tried to buy Jack Grealish for Aston Villa for cheap but Villa wanted a few million more than Spurs were offering (if you recall, Villa was at the time in deep financial trouble and looked unable to keep any star players) early in the summer window of 2018. Spurs balked and tried to do the thing Levy is famous (or infamous) for: stall till the end of the window and get the player at a lower price. However, Villa's ownership changed mid way through that window and suddenly Grealish was no longer available for purchase. City bought him a few years later for $100m. That one still hurts.

Despite that, Spurs went on that improbable UCL run and reached the final. Their league standing tanked and they just snuck in at 4th place but playing for the UCL title still had fans believing and optimistic. That summer, Levy finally decided to back Poch. Spurs opened up the wallet and bought 3 players they thought would be the difference and put them over the top: Tanguy Ndombele (62m and a club record), Giovani Lo Celso (46m loan to buy), and Ryan Sessegnon (25m). All 3 have shown glimpses of good play while with Spurs but all 3 have been major flops for various reasons. Spurs weren't the kind of club that could spend $120m on players that don't work out.

Fast forward to today, and all 3 of those summer signings are still on the books at Spurs but in their final years. Spurs have installed an analytics driven recruiting team that over the past few windows has proven really adept at identifying fits and the club has finally shown a willingness to offload players for less than their initial purchase price if they are bad fits. The stadium is up and running now and is a major cash flow for the club with all the non-football events it hosts throughout the year. The financing on the stadium is a true Levy master stroke because they refinanced in 2020 at absurdly low interest rates. As a club, they are the most profitable in the league and have the most cash available to spend on players in the new FFP rules (not that they will ever actually max that line of credit out).

The future looks very bright. They will probably never be the type of club that can spend 100m on a single player. But, they can live in the 40-60m range. That easily gets you the level of player that can win you trophies if you spend wisely. The most important thing for Spurs in the coming years is to stick with the process. They got caught up in trying to win now when they hired Mourinho and Conte. Doesn't work like that for a club like Spurs, they can't outspend the league and win right away. Ange seems like someone they can have at the helm for 5+ years. If that happens and they don't completely fumble the transfer market, I see no reason why they can't compete right at the top for years to come. Next season, probably a top 4 target, the season after that maybe league title challenge if all goes well.

 

[MrFlyingV]

Chelsea could be a Top 4 team next season. Chelsea made Europa right? Don't give Palmer back to city. Geez city can loan Palmer and still win UCL. Anyways, I think Pep leaves after next season and the gates will open for other teams.

 

[Tharvot]

Chelsea could be a Top 4 team next season. Chelsea made Europa right? Don't give Palmer back to city. Geez city can loan Palmer and still win UCL. Anyways, I think Pep leaves after next season and the gates will open for other teams.

Every season any of the Big 6 could make top 4. City are basically a lock as long as Pep is there. All the other clubs have had down seasons where they didn't finish in UCL. Looks like Villa may be a consistent contender now and you can't forget about Newcastle either.

My way too early predictions for next season are City and Arsenal in top 2.

3-6 could be a real dogfight between Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, and Newcastle. I think Villa fall off a bit with UCL plus EPL games to play. ManU still way off it.

 

[Tharvot]

2023-2024 Season in Review for Spurs:

Big summer transfers and new coaching/system meant a lot of question marks heading into the season.

Of the starting 11, Spurs would rely on 6 players who were either making their EPL debuts or had been with the club for less than a full season: Pedro Porro, Vicario, Van de Ven, Udogie, Brennan Johnson, Maddison. In addition, Spurs would rely on Pap Sarr and Bissouma who rarely saw playing time the season prior. Of those 8, only Maddison came without question marks really. The biggest question was how Spurs would find goals in the absence of Harry Kane. Most pre season predictions had Spurs finishing somewhere mid table and maybe challenging for a lower Euro tourney spot.

Looking back, I gotta say it was a massively successful season all things considered. Spurs were contending for a top 4 spot till the end of the season. Almost all of the new players (and previously unused players) exceeded expectations and the squad massively changed its age profile from one of the oldest in the league to one of the youngest. Lots to look forward to heading into 2024-2025.

 

[rsw626]

And Poch gone from the shitshow that is Chelsea lol. Boehly and Co. have no idea what they are doing.

Poch to Bayern @MrFlyingV ?

 

[MrFlyingV]

And Poch gone from the shitshow that is Chelsea lol. Boehly and Co. have no idea what they are doing.

Poch to Bayern @MrFlyingV ?

We'll take him 100%. Boehly an absolute buffoon. Chelsea youngest team in EPL. And they were in good form at the end!

 

[MrFlyingV]

And Poch gone from the shitshow that is Chelsea lol. Boehly and Co. have no idea what they are doing.

Poch to Bayern @MrFlyingV ?

Well it wasn't Boehly but this mamaluke jabroni Behdad Eghbali. Tech investor just who you need running your football operation. As bad as senile Uli Hoeness is now, I'd rather have him and Karl-Heinze Rummenigge running my team than Beheaded Eghbali lol. Is there a misspelling?

 

[Tharvot]

And Poch gone from the shitshow that is Chelsea lol. Boehly and Co. have no idea what they are doing.

Poch to Bayern @MrFlyingV ?

You love to see it.

They bought up all the best young talent in the world, hired Poch, then let him go because they didn't immediately win. By the end of the season they actually looked really good and Poch had turned things around too. Hell, they hired a good project manager in Potter last year and let him go after a single season as well. It's insane the things they're doing. Hope they fail forever and have to sell off their players.

 

[Tharvot]

Well it wasn't Boehly but this mamaluke jabroni Behdad Eghbali. Tech investor just who you need running your football operation. As bad as senile Uli Hoeness is now, I'd rather have him and Karl-Heinze Rummenigge running my team than Beheaded Eghbali lol. Is there a misspelling?

They used "deep analytics" to grade the team and manager's performance for the year. One of the big sticking points apparently was the players not converting good goal scoring chances...

Which coincidentally is exactly what you get when you field a team full of teenagers. The manager's job is to get them to perform in a way that continues to create those chances, and that's exactly what Poch did.

It's insane and also hilarious.

 

[rsw626]

They used "deep analytics" to grade the team and manager's performance for the year. One of the big sticking points apparently was the players not converting good goal scoring chances...

Which coincidentally is exactly what you get when you field a team full of teenagers. The manager's job is to get them to perform in a way that continues to create those chances, and that's exactly what Poch did.

It's insane and also hilarious.

Exactly. If it's veterans making these mistakes, not finishing etc fine, but teenagers, rookies if you will, take time to adjust to the "bigs", there are exceptions sure, but for the most part, no rookie or young player comes in and dominates, and it's true across all sports whether it's NFL, NBA, MLB etc. Football is no different.

Analytics are fine, most teams in most sports use them, but these idiots obviously have no clue how to use them.

I'm of the opinion, that under normal circumstances, Boehly and Co would not have been approved as owners, but because of the Russia/Ukraine issue, Abramovich had to sell, and the FA (or whomever) just approved the first big offer to come along. I mean look how long it took the Saudis to get approved to buy Newcastle like 2-3 years I believe.

 

[Tharvot]

Exactly. If it's veterans making these mistakes, not finishing etc fine, but teenagers, rookies if you will, take time to adjust to the "bigs", there are exceptions sure, but for the most part, no rookie or young player comes in and dominates, and it's true across all sports whether it's NFL, NBA, MLB etc. Football is no different.

Analytics are fine, most teams in most sports use them, but these idiots obviously have no clue how to use them.

I'm of the opinion, that under normal circumstances, Boehly and Co would not have been approved as owners, but because of the Russia/Ukraine issue, Abramovich had to sell, and the FA (or whomever) just approved the first big offer to come along. I mean look how long it took the Saudis to get approved to buy Newcastle like 2-3 years I believe.

The analytics part made me laugh the most.

I'd wager if you looked at Chelsea's stats, they were good all season long but took the players a while to begin converting.

Upper management blaming a manager for a team's perceived underperformance when the guilty party is themselves for putting the squad together is a tale as old as time.